|
Post by Admin/ Traveler on Aug 7, 2017 17:18:33 GMT
"Studies that Report Unexpected Positive Blood Cultures for Lyme Borrelia-- Are They Valid?" link to article So, to start off my rant.... Our dear friend (sarcasm!!!!) Gary Wormser headed this "study". He's careful to only post much of his "work" so that all people can see are the abstracts, after he makes these ridiculous claims. Why? Well, he likely understands that most of us can't afford to pay $30 or more to read each and every article that's out there. So, he can 'hide' these claims in the full text while leaving them out of the abstract. Here's the full text of what I can see (without paying for the article): "Highlights •Positive blood cultures have been documented in untreated early Lyme disease. •Studies that reported positive blood cultures later in infection were reviewed. •Critical evaluation of three such reports raises concerns over their validity. •Low biologic plausibility increases the need for a high level of scientific rigor. Abstract Positive blood cultures for Lyme borrelia have been well documented in untreated patients with early Lyme disease. In this report we review the validity of three studies that reported the recovery of Borrelia burgdorferi sensu lato from the blood of a high proportion of patients for whom no evidence was presented, and no claim was made, that the patients had untreated early Lyme disease. In two of the studies the patients had been treated extensively with antibiotics for Lyme disease before the cultures were obtained. Critical evaluation of the three reports suggests that they are invalid. Indeed, two subsequently published studies could not reproduce the results of one of the reports. In a published analysis of another of the reports, investigators from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention concluded that the cultures were likely to have been contaminated. When the biologic plausibility of recovering borrelia from blood is extremely low, the level of scientific rigor required of a study that claims a positive result should be particularly high." Seems like a reasonable thing to be concerned about......except - " In two of the studies the patients had been treated extensively with antibiotics for Lyme disease before the cultures were obtained." And??? Even the CDC has finally come out to say that we are NOT supposed to wait for a positive test!!! CDC admits multiple tests may be required and to not wait for treatment "Critical evaluation of the three reports suggests that they are invalid." Really? Critical evaluation by what group of people??? IDSA members you can bet! "Indeed, two subsequently published studies could not reproduce the results of one of the reports." Really? And yet without paying to see this information, we can't find out who, what, when or why. "In a published analysis of another of the reports, investigators from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention concluded that the cultures were likely to have been contaminated." This is actually their excuse for a lot of us and why the "epidemic" is so high - contamination of the test - not that the testing is poor (truth) or that the guidelines from the CDC are for surveillance only. Imagine if these were tests for cancer and he said that! "When the biologic plausibility of recovering borrelia from blood is extremely low, the level of scientific rigor required of a study that claims a positive result should be particularly high." Well, I agree - but only when the testing is RELIABLE!!! Which we certainly do NOT have!!!!
|
|
|
Post by Little Bear (LB) on Aug 8, 2017 7:35:06 GMT
I hate this Wormer guy! HE IS A PARASITIC WORM!
If he is such a great scientist and ID Dr., why doesn't he show his research to the public for free! Then the public would be able to debate his ridiculous research, and crush his tiny insignificant worthless brain. He probably wouldn't be able to handle a debate against his own cr*ppy research.
I don't know why he needs the $30 to read his full article anyway. He is getting paid very well for sleeping with Big Pharma. Once again the stupid rich people continue to make a fortune by telling lies!
I am so sick of always hearing about the CDC "concluding that the cultures were likely to have been contaminated". This is their lame excuse for everything that doesn't work in their favor. Why are so many cultures ending up contaminated? Are they eating their lunch and cookies over the cultures? Oh, no, that's right just more lies from our hard working friends at the CDC!!! What a bunch of BOOBS!
"Imagine if these were the tests for cancer and he said that!" I absolutely agree with you Traveler,There would be total outrage by A LOT of people! But, we just have Lyme Disease and we can ALL be cured with a couple weeks of antibiotics. GRRRRRRR!!!
When will this dumb Wormser guy go to prison for all the pain and suffering that he has brought to so many people through his WORTHLESS LIES!
Well at least there is a special place in Hell for people like this!
|
|
|
Post by Admin/ Traveler on Aug 8, 2017 12:55:30 GMT
Little Bear! I had no idea that you felt like I did! LOL! There are efforts to get this to stop, but they do need the help of everyone that has a phone and 'minutes' to call some elected officials. They are trying to prosecute the CDC and the IDSA, I believe for their 'falsehoods' (I prefer to call them lies! They knew what they were doing, this was NO accident) about the testing to start. That just sort of unravels all of their little 'falsehoods'.
|
|
|
Post by DJ on Aug 8, 2017 14:05:12 GMT
I hate this Wormer guy! HE IS A PARASITIC WORM!
If he is such a great scientist and ID Dr., why doesn't he show his research to the public for free! Then the public would be able to debate his ridiculous research, and crush his tiny insignificant worthless brain. He probably wouldn't be able to handle a debate against his own cr*ppy research.
I don't know why he needs the $30 to read his full article anyway. He is getting paid very well for sleeping with Big Pharma. Once again the stupid rich people continue to make a fortune by telling lies!
I am so sick of always hearing about the CDC "concluding that the cultures were likely to have been contaminated". This is their lame excuse for everything that doesn't work in their favor. Why are so many cultures ending up contaminated? Are they eating their lunch and cookies over the cultures? Oh, no, that's right just more lies from our hard working friends at the CDC!!! What a bunch of BOOBS!
"Imagine if these were the tests for cancer and he said that!" I absolutely agree with you Traveler,There would be total outrage by A LOT of people! But, we just have Lyme Disease and we can ALL be cured with a couple weeks of antibiotics. GRRRRRRR!!!
When will this dumb Wormser guy go to prison for all the pain and suffering that he has brought to so many people through his WORTHLESS LIES!
Well at least there is a special place in Hell for people like this!
|
|
|
Post by DJ on Aug 8, 2017 14:09:20 GMT
O MY GOSH! U go little bear! My feeling exactly! U been hanging around Traveler to long and she has been hanging around me to long! LMAO! I wish the whole darn bunch, when this is done and over with, go to JAIL! That's were they all belong! Better yet, they need to face people like us 3 that have had enough bs from these so called highly educated idiots! They're day is coming!
|
|
|
Post by Little Bear (LB) on Aug 8, 2017 19:10:37 GMT
Little Bear! I had no idea that you felt like I did! LOL! There are efforts to get this to stop, but they do need the help of everyone that has a phone and 'minutes' to call some elected officials. They are trying to prosecute the CDC and the IDSA, I believe for their 'falsehoods' (I prefer to call them lies! They knew what they were doing, this was NO accident) about the testing to start. That just sort of unravels all of their little 'falsehoods'. Ha Ha Ha! Yeah, I have a little rage going on right now! LOL!
I was so happy when my Lyme test came back as CDC Positive for Lyme Disease. I thought to myself "Wow! good thing the CDC is on my side and acknowledges this disease" I was an Idiot back then. I had no idea of all the cover ups and lies that they have told and continue to tell the public!
The day can't come soon enough, for when the CDC and IDSA get hung for killing and ruining thousands of innocent peoples lives!
|
|
|
Post by Little Bear (LB) on Aug 8, 2017 19:27:55 GMT
O MY GOSH! U go little bear! My feeling exactly! U been hanging around Traveler to long and she has been hanging around me to long! LMAO! I wish the whole darn bunch, when this is done and over with, go to JAIL! That's were they all belong! Better yet, they need to face people like us 3 that have had enough bs from these so called highly educated idiots! They're day is coming! Ha Ha Ha!!!
It is people like you and Traveler that have helped so many people see the truth about this terrible disease!
Oh, if I ever was face to face with one of these idiots, I can't promise that I would act very "lady Like"! LOL! My husband would have to bring along a dart gun to sedate me if I would get out of control! LOL!!!!
"highly educated idiots" Ha Ha HA!! It is sooooo true!!
|
|
|
Post by Admin/ Traveler on Aug 9, 2017 17:21:12 GMT
O MY GOSH! U go little bear! My feeling exactly! U been hanging around Traveler to long and she has been hanging around me to long! LMAO! I wish the whole darn bunch, when this is done and over with, go to JAIL! That's were they all belong! Better yet, they need to face people like us 3 that have had enough bs from these so called highly educated idiots! They're day is coming! Ha Ha Ha!!!
It is people like you and Traveler that have helped so many people see the truth about this terrible disease!
Oh, if I ever was face to face with one of these idiots, I can't promise that I would act very "lady Like"! LOL! My husband would have to bring along a dart gun to sedate me if I would get out of control! LOL!!!!
"highly educated idiots" Ha Ha HA!! It is sooooo true!!
LB, your hubby could just borrow the dart gun with tranquilizers that my hubby would bring along!!! Yep, lady like never describes me, but you wouldn't find any thing lady like in me if I had the chance to get some of these people in a closed room!
|
|
|
Post by Little Bear (LB) on Aug 10, 2017 5:08:20 GMT
Ha Ha Ha!!!
It is people like you and Traveler that have helped so many people see the truth about this terrible disease!
Oh, if I ever was face to face with one of these idiots, I can't promise that I would act very "lady Like"! LOL! My husband would have to bring along a dart gun to sedate me if I would get out of control! LOL!!!!
"highly educated idiots" Ha Ha HA!! It is sooooo true!!
LB, your hubby could just borrow the dart gun with tranquilizers that my hubby would bring along!!! Yep, lady like never describes me, but you wouldn't find any thing lady like in me if I had the chance to get some of these people in a closed room! Ha Ha Ha!!!!
Hands down, you would WIN!!!
|
|
|
Post by DJ on Aug 10, 2017 12:56:31 GMT
Ha Ha Ha!!!!
Hands down, you would WIN!!!
|
|
|
Post by DJ on Aug 10, 2017 13:18:12 GMT
LOL! O gosh between our hubbies and us they wouldn't stand a chance in hell! O I had to hold my mouth shut during those task force meetings I went too! OMG! I was like u bunch of stupid SOB'S I HOPE U ALL GET WHAT WE HAVE! HMMM! Lady like? That is something NO one has called me, to much time on my own to be lady like! LMAO! I found a word that gets a lot of attention when u want it! ROFLMAO! We all were being interviewed by the news, everyone was saying how the task force has given high hopes, ha ha, not my response, I said I hope and maybe! in mine! I am not sure if I can get that interview on here, Traveler u seen it on my FB page! LMAO! I wanted so bad to say what a bunch of bull? it was! BUT they proved what bs it was, when they came out with we don't have money in the budget to spray for ticks, but we will educate people ha ha, by billboards? ha ha not an option in my book and bs. The Delaware lymies are really pissed at me and my opinions to them and the big major group here! NO education for doctors! DUH! what's up with that? I asked them all, if they were nuts for their reactions! I am the only 1 in Delaware, I think that went up against them all here! LOL I have a huge huge mouth when it comes to opinions on Lyme disease! But I still can fight on my own! lol... never did take any bs from anyone LOL
|
|
|
Post by Admin/ Traveler on Aug 10, 2017 19:22:19 GMT
If only we were healthy enough (and had the money to spend on a trip instead of meds/herbs) and we could all go to those meetings!!! LOL!
|
|
|
Post by DJ on Aug 11, 2017 16:22:26 GMT
If only we were healthy enough (and had the money to spend on a trip instead of meds/herbs) and we could all go to those meetings!!! LOL! Our task force meeting was up in Dover, it's about an hr/half. I meant people I knew n rode into the city with them. I could of never done it on my own! I be going down the wrong way on a 1 way street, be going in circles, than the anxiety kicks in, O LORD WHAT A MESS IT WOULD OF BEEN! giggle! I told Elise this, so she meant me half way, which wasn't that bad of drive during the week! I feel it was a waste of time really! They give a good bs, line that's about it! People waste a lot of money taking trips, but they go out begging as I call for others to help them get there. Not my style. I will do my fighting from right here! Can't get into a lot of trouble here... ha ha Rather waste my money getting better, I did my part and still help out
|
|
|
Post by Admin/ Traveler on Aug 11, 2017 18:49:15 GMT
I don't know about not getting into a lot of trouble by staying at home!!! LOL!!!! I've managed to piss off quite a few people from home by just speaking truth!!!! Oh well, someone has to do it! LOL!
|
|
|
Post by Psilociraptor on Jan 7, 2018 23:02:03 GMT
The circular reasoning is silly. If one only accepts positives from endemic regions and in pre-treatment patients then one is reinforcing the idea that these are the only populations affected. So many more cases are going to be reported in areas where Lyme is already accepted due to less stringent criteria whereas in cases where Lyme is not well recognized positive results will be discarded leading to a perceived much larger gap in incidence than might be true. I wonder how many positive test results have been thrown out in the South and diseases undiagnosed compared to the North. It's a self-reinforcing criteria built on a whole lot of assumption.
|
|
|
Post by Admin/ Traveler on Jan 8, 2018 1:26:40 GMT
The circular reasoning is silly. If one only accepts positives from endemic regions and in pre-treatment patients then one is reinforcing the idea that these are the only populations affected. So many more cases are going to be reported in areas where Lyme is already accepted due to less stringent criteria whereas in cases where Lyme is not well recognized positive results will be discarded leading to a perceived much larger gap in incidence than might be true. I wonder how many positive test results have been thrown out in the South and diseases undiagnosed compared to the North. It's a self-reinforcing criteria built on a whole lot of assumption. Psilociraptor!!! It's good to have you! You and I do share a lot of the same thoughts! And this one is no different. I'm one of those that had their CDC positive results tossed by the CDC. I tested positive for Lyme and RMSF in 2008 and there are zero cases reported in 2008 in Arkansas. I was so mad that I was spitten' nails for a month!!! I do appreciate your post! Do feel feel to stop by from time to time!
|
|
|
Post by girlie on Jan 8, 2018 7:32:33 GMT
The circular reasoning is silly. If one only accepts positives from endemic regions and in pre-treatment patients then one is reinforcing the idea that these are the only populations affected. So many more cases are going to be reported in areas where Lyme is already accepted due to less stringent criteria whereas in cases where Lyme is not well recognized positive results will be discarded leading to a perceived much larger gap in incidence than might be true. I wonder how many positive test results have been thrown out in the South and diseases undiagnosed compared to the North. It's a self-reinforcing criteria built on a whole lot of assumption. Yes, that's right. Totally skewed data. The stats are totally useless. Here in Canada, the numbers are ridiculously under reported. We have such poor testing..and many haven't even heard of the Igenex testing. Mine was negative...but Igenex positive. They're more concerned about the tick surveillance. WTF - spend the money on better testing, teaching MD's to diagnose, and treatment....not dragging a cloth behind you to see how many ticks there are. We already know it's endemic here. Interesting the poor bug*ers who do the dragging aren't permitted in spraying tick repellent on their clothing....lol. They are advised to wear white clothing though. Anyone wanna sign up for that job? We had high hopes here when there was a bill passed several years ago - Federal Framework on Lyme Disease. We had advocates go to the Legislature and had meetings...and....now SILENCE. nothing has changed.
|
|
|
Post by Psilociraptor on Jan 8, 2018 14:43:02 GMT
Wow just wow. Sometimes Wormser and friends have me wondering if I'm stupid and need to go back to school. They really like to present themselves as being rigorous and unbiased. Public heroes defending us against bad science. Then I hear things like that and some of the BS they spout on their twitters and it's pretty clear things are rigged.
"Dr. Wormser reports receiving research grants from Immunetics, Inc., Institute for Systems Biology, Rarecyte, Inc., and Quidel Corporation. He owns equity in Abbott; has been an expert witness in malpractice cases involving Lyme disease; and is an unpaid board member of the American Lyme Disease Foundation. Dr. Shapiro has received royalty payments from UptoDate; has been an expert witness in malpractice cases involving Lyme disease; and is an unpaid board member of the American Lyme Disease Foundation. Dr. Strle is an unpaid member of the steering committee of ESCMID Study Group on Lyme Borreliosis/ ESGBOR."
Btw trav, paywalls are pretty common on these things regardless of who publishes. But there's an easy way around them. Go to sci-hub wikipedia and find one of the working links on the right hand side. Ie sci-hub.la. These occasionally change as legal action is taken lol. But sci-hub is one of the greatest gifts to mankind. $40 to access a single study is totally absurd. Especially since most scientists I know probably never see a dime of it. In fact, they pay money themselves to have it published... So... yeah I feel very little remorse for going this route lol
|
|
|
Post by Admin/ Traveler on Jan 8, 2018 17:09:33 GMT
Wow just wow. Sometimes Wormser and friends have me wondering if I'm stupid and need to go back to school. They really like to present themselves as being rigorous and unbiased. Public heroes defending us against bad science. Then I hear things like that and some of the BS they spout on their twitters and it's pretty clear things are rigged. "Dr. Wormser reports receiving research grants from Immunetics, Inc., Institute for Systems Biology, Rarecyte, Inc., and Quidel Corporation. He owns equity in Abbott; has been an expert witness in malpractice cases involving Lyme disease; and is an unpaid board member of the American Lyme Disease Foundation. Dr. Shapiro has received royalty payments from UptoDate; has been an expert witness in malpractice cases involving Lyme disease; and is an unpaid board member of the American Lyme Disease Foundation. Dr. Strle is an unpaid member of the steering committee of ESCMID Study Group on Lyme Borreliosis/ ESGBOR." Btw trav, paywalls are pretty common on these things regardless of who publishes. But there's an easy way around them. Go to sci-hub wikipedia and find one of the working links on the right hand side. Ie sci-hub.la. These occasionally change as legal action is taken lol. But sci-hub is one of the greatest gifts to mankind. $40 to access a single study is totally absurd. Especially since most scientists I know probably never see a dime of it. In fact, they pay money themselves to have it published... So... yeah I feel very little remorse for going this route lol Exactly - I couldn't have said it better!!!
|
|
|
Post by alyeska on Feb 9, 2018 13:02:06 GMT
The circular reasoning is silly. If one only accepts positives from endemic regions and in pre-treatment patients then one is reinforcing the idea that these are the only populations affected. So many more cases are going to be reported in areas where Lyme is already accepted due to less stringent criteria whereas in cases where Lyme is not well recognized positive results will be discarded leading to a perceived much larger gap in incidence than might be true. I wonder how many positive test results have been thrown out in the South and diseases undiagnosed compared to the North. It's a self-reinforcing criteria built on a whole lot of assumption. Yes, that's right. Totally skewed data. The stats are totally useless. Here in Canada, the numbers are ridiculously under reported. We have such poor testing..and many haven't even heard of the Igenex testing. Mine was negative...but Igenex positive. They're more concerned about the tick surveillance. WTF - spend the money on better testing, teaching MD's to diagnose, and treatment....not dragging a cloth behind you to see how many ticks there are. We already know it's endemic here. Interesting the poor bug*ers who do the dragging aren't permitted in spraying tick repellent on their clothing....lol. They are advised to wear white clothing though. Anyone wanna sign up for that job? We had high hopes here when there was a bill passed several years ago - Federal Framework on Lyme Disease. We had advocates go to the Legislature and had meetings...and....now SILENCE. nothing has changed. Girlie, I thought the exact same thing when I saw the people in white dragging the sheets around! Who in their right mind would do that without tick repellant?!?!
|
|