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Post by Little Bear (LB) on Jul 22, 2017 1:07:50 GMT
Hi everyone!-
Long story short. I have been treating for parasites for over 1 year. Last July, I started Byron White AP. This is an herbal supplement for parasites, candida, and mold. Some weird symptoms happened that lead my LLMD and me to try Dr. K's parasite protocol. January 2017, I started Dr. K's parasite protocol.
The meds. that I took were: Biltricide, Ivermectin, Pyrantel pamoate, Albendazole, Alinia.
Then these 2 herbs: Mimosia Pudica, Arteminisin.
When I was on the parasite protocol, I noticed that when I was on Albendazole, I had a couple of days in a row that I had energy! I also noticed that while on the protocol, I didn't have any episodes of stuttering!
My body crashed after taking the whole protocol. I was too fatigued to start a second round. My stuttering came back. my stuttering isn't everyday like it was in the past, but when it happens it lasts for a day or two a couple of times a month.
I forced my self to start the second round of parasite protocol June 2017. I was currently on Mimosia. I stopped because of too many days of severe suicidal depression.
During this second round, I noticed that the Albendazole didn't help like last time. But I did notice that I didn't stutter at all through the protocol.
Today, I started to stutter all day again.
So, what do you think this might mean? Do I still have parasites that are affecting my speech? OR Since I killed off some parasites that now the lyme spirochetes that were inside the parasites are now messing with my speech? Or is it Babesia that is messing with my speech? I have read that some people take some of the meds that I listed above to help kill Babesia.
I don't want to take parasite meds for the rest of my life. The only thing that these meds helped with is my speech. I still had muscle aches, sore joints, mental confusion, and so many more symptoms that come and go.
Any and ALL Thoughts are Welcome!
Thank You!
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Post by Randy on Jul 22, 2017 17:13:58 GMT
Ive noticed the same odd revolving symptoms. AT first I noticed there are short revolutions like a few days then they get longer and longer. Ive gone several weeks to a month of the on n off cycle. I have theories about this but not totally sure since we are all diff. Ive also noticed many nthings get worse and better at the same time which is stupid odd lol makes you feel like your going crazy.
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Post by Little Bear (LB) on Jul 22, 2017 18:39:52 GMT
Ive noticed the same odd revolving symptoms. AT first I noticed there are short revolutions like a few days then they get longer and longer. Ive gone several weeks to a month of the on n off cycle. I have theories about this but not totally sure since we are all diff. Ive also noticed many nthings get worse and better at the same time which is stupid odd lol makes you feel like your going crazy. Hi Randy!-
Thank you for your response!
Ha HA HA! LOL! I am beyond crazy at this point!
I have kept a daily journal for over the past 2 years. I can't find any rhyme or reason to my symptoms except for my stuttering issue.
I feel like this might be some sort of clue. But not sure as to what it means.
Well, at least I can now add Private Investigator to my resume.
I hope that you are able to figure out your cycles. I personally think that is half the battle in fighting this disease.
Thank You!
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Post by Randy on Jul 22, 2017 18:57:40 GMT
Nah Im not gunna even try and figure it out. It will drive me bat sh*t crazy and Im done with over thinking this disease Im just gunna watch and observe. Otherwise I will set false expectations and be let down as I have already done in the past. I may change my mind after the first full year of treatment though lol
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Post by Admin/ Traveler on Jul 23, 2017 14:08:03 GMT
I too prefer to take the watch and observe position many times, just to see what happens next. This can sometimes allow me to see patterns that I would otherwise not see.
For me, the stuttering was directly connected to the rising levels of toxins back when I was using abx and not detoxing well, and got worse after my body crashed from trying to use that protocol (one that wasn't right for me). This may or may not be what is driving stuttering for others though - just an observation on my own process.
Are you pulsing the arteminisin? That's important.
It can be nearly impossible to narrow down exactly what infection is driving what symptoms quite often, unfortunately - but you keeping a journal will help!
Yep, I want to add "medical detective" to my resume!!!! And a note that says "a darn good one too!" LOL!
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Post by Little Bear (LB) on Jul 23, 2017 17:57:33 GMT
Nah Im not gunna even try and figure it out. It will drive me bat sh*t crazy and Im done with over thinking this disease Im just gunna watch and observe. Otherwise I will set false expectations and be let down as I have already done in the past. I may change my mind after the first full year of treatment though lol Hi Randy!-
Ha Ha Ha! "bat sh*t crazy" That is a very polite way of saying it! LOL!
I hear you about false expectations and being let down! Every new medication, herb, supplement, and detox method I have had high hopes to notice some sort of improvement that lasts. UGH!
Thank You!
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Post by Little Bear (LB) on Jul 23, 2017 18:33:28 GMT
I too prefer to take the watch and observe position many times, just to see what happens next. This can sometimes allow me to see patterns that I would otherwise not see. For me, the stuttering was directly connected to the rising levels of toxins back when I was using abx and not detoxing well, and got worse after my body crashed from trying to use that protocol (one that wasn't right for me). This may or may not be what is driving stuttering for others though - just an observation on my own process. Are you pulsing the arteminisin? That's important. It can be nearly impossible to narrow down exactly what infection is driving what symptoms quite often, unfortunately - but you keeping a journal will help! Yep, I want to add "medical detective" to my resume!!!! And a note that says "a darn good one too!" LOL! Hi Traveler!-
Thank you for sharing with me how your stuttering was connected to high toxins. I have also wondered about this. UGH!!!! There are so many things that could be causing my stuttering.
According to Dr. K's parasite protocol, I took Arteminisin three times a day for 14 days in a row. I didn't pulse it. Do people pulse Arteminisin if they take it longer than 14 days?
Ha Ha Ha!!! YES! "medical detective". Just like the Sherlock Holmes of Lyme Disease!
Thank You!
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Post by Admin/ Traveler on Jul 23, 2017 20:47:52 GMT
"Just like the Sherlock Holmes of Lyme Disease!" YES!!!! LOL! Maybe we should all sign with an MSH (Medical Sherlock Holmes)!!! Ha ha ha!!!
I believe that 10 - 14 days in a row is the longest a person should be taking arteminisin??? Any longer than that and it should be pulsed, as in take ___ drops Monday, Wednesday, and Friday - or whatever schedule your doc sets up. There is an enzyme in our intestines that gets created or activated when it's taken longer than that, that renders arteminisin ineffective after that. I'm saying this without double checking on it though - so be sure you double check it!!! LOL!
Stuttering is often an issue with either the nervous system, or with the brain. Toxins in either area will have the potential to cause this, as will dysfunction of those areas and I did notice that any time my nervous system was on overload, I had more trouble with stuttering and other things. Detoxing and anti-inflammatories would be the first things I'd be looking at, if I was dealing with it again.
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Post by Randy on Jul 24, 2017 6:03:02 GMT
I have sweet annie in my tonic I still take and have been taking it daily form months however it is in low doses compared to rec dosing. I take it because of the many other herbs in it. I remember when I could only take a few drops every other day. Now Im at 16 a day. I.H.A and Sida+ rotating every other day. I stopped the tonic for a week and felt like dog poo then started again and felt a bit better.
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Post by Little Bear (LB) on Jul 24, 2017 18:30:06 GMT
"Just like the Sherlock Holmes of Lyme Disease!" YES!!!! LOL! Maybe we should all sign with an MSH (Medical Sherlock Holmes)!!! Ha ha ha!!! I believe that 10 - 14 days in a row is the longest a person should be taking arteminisin??? Any longer than that and it should be pulsed, as in take ___ drops Monday, Wednesday, and Friday - or whatever schedule your doc sets up. There is an enzyme in our intestines that gets created or activated when it's taken longer than that, that renders arteminisin ineffective after that. I'm saying this without double checking on it though - so be sure you double check it!!! LOL! Stuttering is often an issue with either the nervous system, or with the brain. Toxins in either area will have the potential to cause this, as will dysfunction of those areas and I did notice that any time my nervous system was on overload, I had more trouble with stuttering and other things. Detoxing and anti-inflammatories would be the first things I'd be looking at, if I was dealing with it again. Hi Traveler!-
Thank You for answering my question about the arteminisin! I didn't double check. Your answer was good enough to reassure me that I took it properly. LOL!
I'm still taking A-Inflam (for inflammation) and detoxing daily. I will look into other ways to calm my central nervous system down.
Thank You!
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Post by Little Bear (LB) on Jul 24, 2017 18:38:15 GMT
I have sweet annie in my tonic I still take and have been taking it daily form months however it is in low doses compared to rec dosing. I take it because of the many other herbs in it. I remember when I could only take a few drops every other day. Now Im at 16 a day. I.H.A and Sida+ rotating every other day. I stopped the tonic for a week and felt like dog poo then started again and felt a bit better. Hi Randy!-
I am sorry, I am very bad wit herbs and what they are used for. Is sweet annie the same herb as arteminisin?
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Post by Admin/ Traveler on Jul 24, 2017 19:23:05 GMT
Yes, Sweet Annie is another name that Artemesia annua goes by, and artemesia annua is what is used to make arteminisin. It's just that the arteminisin is highly concentrated and is an extract, whereas the artemesia annua (sweet annie) is just the whole herb - not concentrated or any parts removed.
When artemesia annua is used as a whole herb, the pulsing and time limits do not apply.
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Post by Little Bear (LB) on Jul 25, 2017 2:19:44 GMT
Yes, Sweet Annie is another name that Artemesia annua goes by, and artemesia annua is what is used to make arteminisin. It's just that the arteminisin is highly concentrated and is an extract, whereas the artemesia annua (sweet annie) is just the whole herb - not concentrated or any parts removed. When artemesia annua is used as a whole herb, the pulsing and time limits do not apply. WOW! Thank you Traveler for explaining.
Ha ha ha! I learned something today!
Hopefully, I will remember this!
Thank You!
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Post by Admin/ Traveler on Jul 25, 2017 13:29:55 GMT
The cool thing is that if you don't remember, all you have to do is ask - or come back to this thread!!!! I'm glad I could be of some help though!!!
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Post by Admin/ Traveler on Jul 25, 2017 19:59:40 GMT
Sooo, funny thing - I finally got restarted in school today (YAY!!) and this is the very topic where I left off. Here is what is stated in my lesson:
"SYNERGY The theory of synergy states that the whole is greater than the sum of the parts. In herbal medicine, this means that taking two herbs together will often have more of a beneficial effect than taking both herbs separately. For example, someone might have difficulty sleeping and try taking valerian before bedtime and find that it doesn’t really work for them. They might then try taking passionflower instead, and find that passionflower also does not help them fall asleep. If they took valerian and passionflower together, the valerian-passionflower formula would be more likely to help them fall asleep than taking either herb, separately.
Synergy works between different plants, but it can also happen within a plant itself! This is why it is often wiser to take a whole herb rather than a supplement containing only one of the herb’s constituents. Take the other constituents away, and the herb doesn’t have as powerful an effect. Within one herb, constituents work together to create a balancing effect in the body, preventing side effects that a single constituent might cause. When constituents are taken apart from each other, they are more likely to cause undesired side effects.
Because of synergy, doses of individual plants within a formula are often lower than the dose you would give of the same plant by itself (as a simple). For example, if you were to give someone chamomile separately from lemon balm, you might recommend a dose of 4-5 milliliters (mL) 3x/day of each. Together, you could give a formula of half chamomile and half lemon balm, with 2-3 mL of each, 3x/day.
Multiple studies in the scientific literature point to the ability of herbs and constituents of herbs to synergize with one another. Wang et al. (2012) report that “clinical trials reveal the multiherb prescriptions of herbal medicine often exhibit pharmacological and therapeutic superiority in comparison to isolated single constituents.” Spinella (2002) wrote of the importance of pharmacological synergy in psychoactive herbal medicines, especially St. John’s wort, kava kava, and valerian. Rasoanaivo et al. (2011) found sweet Annie, turmeric, and black pepper to have synergistic effects against malaria. These are just a few of the countless examples in the literature revealing the synergistic effects of herbal formulas."
This is why I choose to use whole herbs mostly, even in tincture making. Arteminisin is one component/constituent of Artemesia annua, so I choose to use artemesia annua instead.
I do hope this helps everyone's understanding of what we are using and why. This is not an attempt to get people to stop using things like arteminisin, but if you don't find it helpful, the whole herb may work better is all. It's a learning process for all of us!
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Post by Randy on Jul 25, 2017 20:50:03 GMT
Yep. I learned this about cannabis a while back. Its also called the "Entourage Effect". Soooo many people trying to isolate and take just CBD when THC is needed as well as CBG,CBN,THCA and so on. I also learned recently Sida and Andrographis go together.
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Post by Little Bear (LB) on Jul 26, 2017 0:44:36 GMT
Sooo, funny thing - I finally got restarted in school today (YAY!!) and this is the very topic where I left off. Here is what is stated in my lesson: "SYNERGY The theory of synergy states that the whole is greater than the sum of the parts. In herbal medicine, this means that taking two herbs together will often have more of a beneficial effect than taking both herbs separately. For example, someone might have difficulty sleeping and try taking valerian before bedtime and find that it doesn’t really work for them. They might then try taking passionflower instead, and find that passionflower also does not help them fall asleep. If they took valerian and passionflower together, the valerian-passionflower formula would be more likely to help them fall asleep than taking either herb, separately. Synergy works between different plants, but it can also happen within a plant itself! This is why it is often wiser to take a whole herb rather than a supplement containing only one of the herb’s constituents. Take the other constituents away, and the herb doesn’t have as powerful an effect. Within one herb, constituents work together to create a balancing effect in the body, preventing side effects that a single constituent might cause. When constituents are taken apart from each other, they are more likely to cause undesired side effects. Because of synergy, doses of individual plants within a formula are often lower than the dose you would give of the same plant by itself (as a simple). For example, if you were to give someone chamomile separately from lemon balm, you might recommend a dose of 4-5 milliliters (mL) 3x/day of each. Together, you could give a formula of half chamomile and half lemon balm, with 2-3 mL of each, 3x/day. Multiple studies in the scientific literature point to the ability of herbs and constituents of herbs to synergize with one another. Wang et al. (2012) report that “clinical trials reveal the multiherb prescriptions of herbal medicine often exhibit pharmacological and therapeutic superiority in comparison to isolated single constituents.” Spinella (2002) wrote of the importance of pharmacological synergy in psychoactive herbal medicines, especially St. John’s wort, kava kava, and valerian. Rasoanaivo et al. (2011) found sweet Annie, turmeric, and black pepper to have synergistic effects against malaria. These are just a few of the countless examples in the literature revealing the synergistic effects of herbal formulas." This is why I choose to use whole herbs mostly, even in tincture making. Arteminisin is one component/constituent of Artemesia annua, so I choose to use artemesia annua instead. I do hope this helps everyone's understanding of what we are using and why. This is not an attempt to get people to stop using things like arteminisin, but if you don't find it helpful, the whole herb may work better is all. It's a learning process for all of us! Hi Traveler!-
Yikes!!!!!! This is a brain overload! LOL!!
But I do understand what you are saying, I think? Ha Ha Ha!!!
Whole herbs are usually better for us. And that I took the wrong stuff!! LOL!!!
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Post by girlie on Jul 26, 2017 8:06:10 GMT
I too prefer to take the watch and observe position many times, just to see what happens next. This can sometimes allow me to see patterns that I would otherwise not see. For me, the stuttering was directly connected to the rising levels of toxins back when I was using abx and not detoxing well, and got worse after my body crashed from trying to use that protocol (one that wasn't right for me). This may or may not be what is driving stuttering for others though - just an observation on my own process. Are you pulsing the arteminisin? That's important. It can be nearly impossible to narrow down exactly what infection is driving what symptoms quite often, unfortunately - but you keeping a journal will help! Yep, I want to add "medical detective" to my resume!!!! And a note that says "a darn good one too!" LOL! Hi Traveler!-
Thank you for sharing with me how your stuttering was connected to high toxins. I have also wondered about this. UGH!!!! There are so many things that could be causing my stuttering.
According to Dr. K's parasite protocol, I took Arteminisin three times a day for 14 days in a row. I didn't pulse it. Do people pulse Arteminisin if they take it longer than 14 days?
Ha Ha Ha!!! YES! "medical detective". Just like the Sherlock Holmes of Lyme Disease!
Thank You!
14 days is actually too long for Artemisinin from what I've read. LLMD MR says 3 days on and 11 off - because after that the small intestine creates an enzyme that destroys it if it's used longer. I've also seen 7 days on and 3 weeks off. You should try to get to a fairly high dose after a few 'rounds' of the Artemisinin. (gradually increase it ) Is Dr. Klinghardt's protocol with Artemisinin- or another form - Artesunate or Dihydroartemisinin - which is a semi-synthetic derivative?
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Post by Little Bear (LB) on Jul 26, 2017 16:54:34 GMT
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Post by Admin/ Traveler on Jul 26, 2017 20:50:02 GMT
Girlie, do you know if you take a break from the arteminisin for ____ days/weeks after 'over using' it, will it be okay to go back to it?
Arteminisin has been effective for some though, so if it's something that you can take a few weeks off from and then it will help again - you may wish to continue with it, since your doc is on board with using it. If not, then you can suggest something that doesn't have so many restrictions on it's use maybe.
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