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Post by acres on Nov 3, 2017 19:43:46 GMT
Hi Traveler, I am starting a modified Buhler protocol from a NYC herbalist....She told me she is starting me out with these herbs due to my c diff last year & current symptoms : echinacea angustifolia, bidens pilosa, teasel root and ginger root is formula 1. Hawrthorne berry and motherwart is formula 2. I am also take astragalus and - 100mg of doxy everyday (that is what my doctor gave me)
My doctor and Herbalist believe I am at the early stages but my wife pointed out to me that I catch nasty colds all the time, which is true...I am wondering now if this last bite put an existing infection into overdrive or am I just losing my mind from stress ? Anyway I read on the HW forum about your success with herbal treatment and since abx scare me and my doctors due my nasty c diff last year I figured this is the right place for me to seek some good karma and opinions and advice.... Thank you !
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Post by alyeska on Nov 3, 2017 20:54:22 GMT
Yeah, my doctor is very wary of abx too. He only allowed me to use them in an extreme situation. I hope the herbal protocols work for you.
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Post by Admin/ Traveler on Nov 3, 2017 21:31:23 GMT
HI Acres! Welcome to our little community!! And thank you for joining us!
C-diff is a nasty infection! I'm glad you came through it okay!
Have you done much reading on those herbs they have you taking?
It's always possible that you had an infection previously of some other organism. I mean, seriously, if we weren't being tested, we might not realize it! I believe I've been struggling with Myco for a long time, and I was never tested for it - but to be fair, I didn't give anyone in the Western medical field much time for testing. So, for you, it would depend on WHY your doctors believe you are dealing with a recent infection.
And - because it's me, I have to ask, how's your detoxing going? Detoxing is nearly as important as the treatment itself.
The echinacea will boost your immune system
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Post by acres on Nov 4, 2017 2:13:07 GMT
Hi, They believe it is new due to a tick bite that was red even before I removed the tick and based on these symptoms (feeling exhausted flu like, scratchy throat and irritated chest and ribs, slight headache and intermittent twitching of my right upper arm and various other areas which all started about 10 days ago) After all my appt's my wife and I were talking about how often I get colds....My immune system is not good due to a chronic low white blood cell count...Years ago a hematologist told me it was just my "normal" So I will discuss that with the doctors and herbalist at my next appointments....
I am not detoxing, to be honest I do not have a clue how to detox...
I just received the book Healing Time 2nd edition and have been reading it tonight trying to learn fast....
I also googled all the herbs....But I am brand new to this and putting my trust in the herbalist who is a big believer in the Healing Time book protocol.... I just ordered the herbs so I have not started yet, Presently I am taking 100mg doxy, 3000mg of Astragalus, Immune factor vitamins, fresh ginger tea, florastor probiotic and vsl 3 probiotic....Hopefully the herbs will be here tomorrow.... I asked about knotwood and cat's claw and the herbalist told me she wants to start slow due to my c diff.... Are you an herbalist ? Thank you !!
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Post by Admin/ Traveler on Nov 4, 2017 19:51:15 GMT
No, I'm not an Herbalist, but I am going to school to become one, plus I have quite a few years of researching them for my own healing of these infections. I try to help as much as I can. Can you tell us about the book, Healing Time? The only thing I can find when I Google it is a book of "gypsy poems" I'd like to at least take a look so I can see what you are being told what to use and do - not that it is wrong, only that if we are familiar with what protocol you are using, we will be of more help to you, I believe. The first thing I'd tell you is to be sure to only start one herb at a time - and at low doses!! This is something that many people don't do - and they end up in the middle of an extensive herx (more on that later, if you need), and absolutely miserable, and some end up in the ER over it. We all react differently to herbs -one that helps me tremendously, might not help you at all, might cause an allergic reaction, or other things. The one way to avoid most pitfalls is to start slowly with only one herb, and make sure it's at low dose. We all can help you with this part, as if we haven't experienced it ourselves, it was likely because someone else warned us beforehand. Here are some basic detoxing methods that you can look over - I would suggest you start with things like dry skin brushing, lymph massages and an Epsom salt/peroxide foot soak (not a whole body bath) - and be sure to ask ALL of the questions you feel you may need to! There are NO dumb questions here - what you don't know or understand may be something you do! Tired of Lyme - detoxing methods I would also encourage you to read this article as well, as it talks about 'over detoxing' and what happens when we try to push too much on our bodies at a time (the key is slow and steady on treatments and detoxing): Tired of Lyme - 4 reasons why you still feel bad despite detoxing With some researching you do on your own (and you can come here and ask questions on things you don't understand), and the help we can give you, combined with your doctor and herbalist, we should be able to get you through this!
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Post by acres on Nov 4, 2017 20:55:50 GMT
Oh my god thank you so much ! I am so terrified. I took a hot shower earlier and when I came out I literally thought I was going to pass out. I feel so awful like the flu x 1000, like I have not slept in a month.....my chest, throat, neck all feel inflamed. Just talking exhausts me... I am not a scientific person and will need help understanding this.....
My 1st post in this thread has the herbs the herbalist wants me to take....This is basically blind trust in her... Do they seem adequate ? The book I am reading is called Healing Lyme by Stephen Buhner 2nd edition from amazon.com...It is very scientific and kind of over my head. I just started to read it yesterday.... I will do my best to explain the book after I have read some more of it....
My herbs did not come today so I guess I will not start until Monday. Can I detox before I start taking the herbs ? I guess there will be nothing to detox ? Maybe from the abx ?
Thank you for this forum and your help !!!!
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Post by deejavu on Nov 4, 2017 20:56:49 GMT
Hi acres,
Edit: We posted at the same time! In any case I personally believe that detoxing is half the battle to getting better from my own personal experience. Herbs definitely help and when lyme bacteria die off they leave toxins which recycle inside the body causing pain, havoc, brain fog, etc. Even light skin brushing opens the pores to let out toxins as well as so many other methods. My personal favorite is taking a detox bath (Epsom salts mixed with hydrogen peroxide ~ food grade)...
Denise
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Post by acres on Nov 4, 2017 21:00:25 GMT
Hi, Can I start now or do I have to wait until I begin my herbal treatment ? I have been taking 100mg of doxy the last few days....
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Post by deejavu on Nov 4, 2017 21:03:11 GMT
Hi again acres,
I would stay away from hot showers right now. Yes, you can start detoxing right away but if you decide to take a detox bath please make sure the water is warm and not hot and only stay in for about 10 minutes. Drink water with lemon as you soak. Google dry skin brushing as you will learn about all the benefits from such a simple task.
Also please start slow with the herbs. When I first started taking botanicals I started with one at a time just to see how my body reacted to it. Keep it simple. You can always add.
My motto is how do I know which herb is working if I am taking more than one?
Hope this helps, Denise
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Post by acres on Nov 4, 2017 21:17:52 GMT
The herbs are mixed together in a formula. Am I in trouble ? You can see them in the 1st post of this thread... Thank you !!!!!
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Post by Admin/ Traveler on Nov 4, 2017 22:12:36 GMT
Ohhh!! Ha ha ha!! Wow, was I confused!! I actually have Buhner's books in front of me! While I would encourage you to read the whole thing (just gobs of information!!), you can start on page 207, where he is explaining the 'core protocol' to get you started with an understanding of what herbs you may be using and what they do.
The problem with a mix of herbs, is that you can't 'test' them first. If you react (allergic reaction or just can't tolerate them), you won't know which one you reacted to until you buy some single herb tinctures and try them. I've always suggested starting only one herb at a time just for this reason.
What you are taking now are good herbs, and if they are working for you, and you aren't herxing badly, then please do stay on them. I would just encourage you to start only one herb at a time from here on out. And, so that you know - Deejavu saved me during one of my worst herxing episodes. It was literally a year long herx that was only getting worse. She worked with me until we could get my body to tolerate the help I was trying to give it for detoxing. So, she's my detoxing Guru!!! And I love her dearly for the way she helps everyone!!!
Detoxing is taken slowly too, just as Deejavu said. Don't take hot showers/baths/soaks - many of us react to using hot water.
Would it be helpful to you for us to post what we do for detoxing? That way you can see what we are doing, and can ask questions if you wish.
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Post by girlie on Nov 4, 2017 22:15:31 GMT
Hi again acres,
I would stay away from hot showers right now. Yes, you can start detoxing right away but if you decide to take a detox bath please make sure the water is warm and not hot and only stay in for about 10 minutes. Drink water with lemon as you soak. Google dry skin brushing as you will learn about all the benefits from such a simple task.
Also please start slow with the herbs. When I first started taking botanicals I started with one at a time just to see how my body reacted to it. Keep it simple. You can always add.
My motto is how do I know which herb is working if I am taking more than one?
Hope this helps, Denise I agree with Deejavu. I see people posting about having a really hot bath...and feeling awful after. They think it's good because it's 'killing' something. BUT, if we're using the epsom salt bath for detox...then we're trying to flush out the toxins...not add more! We're wanting to help with the symptoms. That is the point of the detox. The epsom salt bath (warm) with a couple of lavender EO drops is (and always has been) my BEST detox - for almost immediate relief.
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Post by acres on Nov 5, 2017 1:56:32 GMT
Hi. yes yes !!!! please tell me about your detox methods.. So the hot shower is killing off bacteria and making me feel awful ? I was in there for about 20 min. Should I do the foot bath and the full bath ? ( we have Epsom salts at the house !) Now that everyone has explained one herb at a time it sure makes logical sense.... Wow, this forum is a blessing....If I win the lottery I am going to share with everyone here...
Thank you !!
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Post by alyeska on Nov 5, 2017 8:16:40 GMT
Isn't acres herxing badly?
I have the same questions... even the shower thing which I've experienced as well! That's herxing, right? I almost fainted after a couple of long, hot showers, and I used to love them. My nurse practitioner said the heat and pressure could be killing off bad bacteria too quickly. Right?
I have some added questions. My doc wants me to use baking soda instead of Epsom salts because of sulfur issues. If I want to stay in longer, can I start with plain water and then add the baking soda for the last 10 minutes?
Should I add hydrogen peroxide to the baking soda, and, if so, how much?
Dry brushing... any suggestions for best brush to buy?
Repeating acres here, full bath and foot bath, or only one? Is one better than the other?
Thanks again for the detoxing links above.
acres, can you tell me how you make your ginger tea?
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Post by alyeska on Nov 5, 2017 9:17:32 GMT
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Post by acres on Nov 5, 2017 14:55:10 GMT
Hi, We buy ginger, peel off the skin , cut into slices and then boil for 5 min. and let it steep for another 5 or 10....Then I pour it into a large cup, including the slices and drink the liquid. Sometimes I munch on the slices once I finished the tea....It took me sometime to get used to the strong taste... We cut up a large amount and store in the frig....I drink 2 strong cups daily... Been drinking the tea for almost 2 years with no side effects.... Scott
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Post by deejavu on Nov 5, 2017 18:06:11 GMT
The blog below explains about detox baths and gives instructions. I have been using Epsom salts for so many years and never had a problem. Dr. Jernigan addresses sulfa:
The “sulfate” part of Epsom Salt (magnesium sulfate). This form of sulfate must not be confused with “Sulfa” drugs, to which some people are allergic. People who are allergic to sulfa drugs will not react to the sulfate in Epsom Salt. The benefits of sulfate in the body are summarized by Dr. Rosemary Waring of the School of Biosciences, in Birmingham, England:i
•Oral supplementation of Sulfate cannot be easily absorbed across the gut walls; therefore, by soaking in this bath, sulfate can be more efficiently supplemented. Sulfate is essential for many biological processes. •Sulfate is needed for formation of proteins in joints; decreased sulfate levels are common in the plasma and joint synovial fluids in cases of arthritis. Sulfate is also low in people with irritable bowel syndrome. ii, iii •Sulfate in necessary for sulfation, a major pathway in detoxifying drugs and endogenous (toxins from within the body) or exogenous (environmental) toxins. •Sulfate is necessary for the repair and formation of brain tissue. Reduced levels of sulfate can lead to faulty neurological connections and subsequent dysfunction. •Sulfate is needed for proper digestion and for proper utilization of digestive enzymes. •Sulfate is essential for the production of mucin, a protein which lines the intestines. Mucin stops food and drugs from sticking to the lining of the intestines. It also blocks the transport of toxins from the gut into the bloodstream.
beatinglymedisease.blogspot.com/2011/06/epsom-salt-detox-bath.html
The brush I use is made by Bernard Jensen and Vitacost or Amazon sells it:
www.amazon.com/Bernard-Jensens-Brush-Natural-Bristle/dp/B0016BM5D2
Hope this helps, Denise
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Post by acres on Nov 5, 2017 19:35:15 GMT
Hi, Good article about the hot showers/hot weather....Thanks....
Just noticed last night I initially told you the name of the book was Healing Time...Sorry....
I am confused about a foot bath or a full bath....Which one did everyone start with ? Does anyone use the ginger in the bath as per the link ?
I have to purchase a brush, in the meantime I will use one of those kitchen sponges with the abrasive side (very lightly)...
Anyone else have chest, rib, throat discomfort with this lyme monster ? Thanks, Scott
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Post by Admin/ Traveler on Nov 5, 2017 19:39:59 GMT
Acres - I would say no to using both the foot soak and the full body soak - use only one for now. I have to use only the foot soak because the full body soak releases too many toxins at once, and my bloodstream gets overwhelmed with toxins - and I'm back into a bad herx again. I have a feeling that you too will have this experience, at least at first. As you get your body 'caught up' with detoxing, you may be able to switch over to the full body soaks at some point though. I was going to just post my detoxing routines, so you can see what all I do to get my body detoxing and to keep up with the toxins being released, but I thought this little outline maybe of more help to both you and Alyeska: With the experience that I had personally, and what I've watched others go through, here is what I believe needs to happen for many of us to heal: a)Detoxing - gene mutations, multiple tick-borne infections and more can have a big impact on our ability to detox. I have not had any of the gene mutation testing done, although I do seem to have the same kind of issues as those that do - so I figured it was best for me to assume that I did and work to get my body to detox much better. It took a lot of diet changes as things with my body changed, I use a foot soak, dry skin brushing, making sure my bowels moved at least once a day (sorry if it's TMI!) pushing myself to drink at least 64 ounces of lemon water each and every day, liver/gall bladder flushes (all natural), as needed, oil pulling with tea tree oil, taking activated charcoal, as needed, Alpha lipoic acid, Quercetin, turmeric, Methyl B-12 and methyl folate, Dandelion tincture, red root tincture, Yogi brand detox tea (original flavor) Have recently added cytokine remodulators - Chinese Skullcap and Red clover extracts and keeping the amount of stress in my life at a bare minimum. I have used apple cider vinegar to help with detoxing as well - it's really good, but started making my stomach issues worse, so I stopped using it daily and only use it occasionally when I know I need a boost in my detoxing for just a day or two. You can find some really good detoxing suggestions in the "New to Lyme?" thread that sits at the top of the forum. And this is another really good resource for detoxing ideas for Lyme patients: Tired of Lyme - detoxing methods But, there is such a thing as over detoxing. This happens when we move more toxins than our body is capable of processing out effectively. Many toxins are stored in our tissues, and by detoxing, we move them to the bloodstream where we can process them out of our bodies through the lymph system, then on to the liver and kidneys as so on. We have to be sure to add in more detoxing routines slowly and carefully, or we will end up herxing just like we had never been detoxing. This article helps to explain that some: Tired of Lyme, 4 reasons you still feel bad despite detoxing b)Supporting the body functions/systems. We have to have the body working at it's peak performance to heal from something as devastating as these infections. Supporting any gland, organ, body system that is struggling will allow the body to switch it's 'concentration' from just trying to function over to healing. c) Raise the immune function. Many legitimate Lyme researchers now believe that it's the lowered immune function that determines who gets chronic Lyme and who heals right away. We already know that Lyme lowers the immune function and when a person has Bartonella and/or Babesia, the immune function is further compromised, so to heal we must raise our immune function. d) Lastly, oddly enough, are anti-infective treatments. Many of us have experienced treatment failures, so we can see that the treatments aren't the only thing we need to have - there has to be more to the equation, but anti-infective treatments are very important!! Lyme bacteria are one of the most complicated bacteria! Although it takes only hours or days for most bacteria to replicate, Lyme bacteria only replicates in the body every few weeks.
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Post by Admin/ Traveler on Nov 5, 2017 19:48:10 GMT
Throat discomfort can come from the throat itself or from the lymph nodes surrounding it. If it's the lymph nodes swelling, you can do the dry skin brushing and lymph massages to help them release their toxins: You Tube - lymph massages The only thing I'll say, is do NOT do the massage the 50 times or whatever is said in this video, as that would make mine hurt like a bugger!!! I only do the massages until they 'soften' if they feel hard, or until some relief is felt, but I'll do it several times a day. Chest pains can be from a number of things. Obviously, we want to rule out issues with the heart first, but once that's done, then you move on to things like costochondritis(inflammation in the cartilage between the ribs) caused by Bartonella, lymph node swelling, or even bone pain. All of these things can be caused by theses infections. My skin has been too touchy for me to add ginger to my bath, but like you, I drink it or take ginger caps daily.
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